The Art of Healing

Ancient Wisdom Meets Modern Medicine: Part 2 of David Crowe's Interview

• Charlyce Davis MD Reiki Practitioner

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Dive deep into the forgotten connections between spiritual practices and herbal medicine with Dr. David Crowe, specialist in Chinese, Tibetan, and Ayurvedic traditions. This illuminating conversation reveals how ancient healing systems viewed chakras not as simplistic energy points, but as sophisticated transformational fields that convert physical essence into spiritual power.

You can work with Dr. Crow in his consultation services here:

https://www.crowconsultations.com/consultation


You can also learn from Dr. Crow in his courses:

https://www.crowconsultations.com/courses


You can also attend one of Dr. Crow's events here:

https://www.crowconsultations.com/events-calendar



David expertly untangles the confusion around chakras, explaining how Western interpretations have oversimplified complex energy systems. He compares the familiar seven-chakra model with Taoist medicine's three energy fields (dantian), showing how both traditions aim to transform lower energies into higher spiritual states. Through this comparative lens, listeners gain a richer understanding of how diverse healing traditions share fundamental principles while expressing them through different cultural frameworks.

Perhaps most valuable for everyday wellness, David shares practical wisdom on integrating spiritual practices with herbal medicine. He explains how meditation, mantras, and mindful awareness can dramatically amplify the therapeutic effects of herbs—a connection that was inseparable in traditional healing but has been lost in modern approaches. "Simply paying attention to the body sensations produced by herbs potentizes their effects," he notes, offering a simple technique anyone can use to enhance their natural healing practices.

The conversation also addresses the limitations of what David calls "green allopathy"—using herbs like pharmaceutical drugs to target specific symptoms without addressing root causes. He provides eye-opening examples of how this approach often fails, such as when sleep herbs don't work because the person needs rejuvenation rather than relaxation.

Whether you're interested in traditional medicine, spiritual practices, or simply seeking more effective approaches to health challenges, this episode offers profound insights that bridge ancient wisdom with modern needs. Visit crowconsultations.com to explore David's courses and consultations that integrate these healing traditions.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome back to the Art of Healing podcast. This is Dr Charlize, and, as always, I am so grateful for you joining me for this episode. Today's episode is part two of my interview with David Crowe. This is a part two and I'd recommend, if you missed the previous episode, you go back and listen to that one, just so you understand the full context. Dr David Crowe is a specialist in Chinese, tibetan and Ayurvedic medicine and their spiritual lineages. He's the best-selling author of many books, including In Search of the Medicine, buddha, a Himalayan Journey, sacred Smokes and Plants that Heal, and David joined us during this extra special episode to share his wisdom as well as to tell us about his newest offerings, including his course Illuminated Chakras. Enjoy, including his course Illuminated Chakras Enjoy.

Speaker 1:

So, david, if you are doing okay for time, if it's okay for you for a few more minutes, we are folks that have joined in are still here, so if they're okay with it, I'd like to let them ask you a few questions and if you all want to come into the chat or it looks like we have some folks that want to unmute and while they're getting ready, a comment that you made, david, which was everything you just said, was beautiful and is a masterclass, clearly.

Speaker 1:

So that's why I wanted to make sure you could speak freely.

Speaker 1:

I knew I prepared for this experience and while Johnny's asking his questions, I'm going to put in the chat, in case anyone's missed it, your courses and where to find you and folks remember everything will be in the podcast show notes.

Speaker 1:

But you made a comment about gravity and the force of gravity and that one's probably just going to just stick with me for years because in physics, in the other side of the study, in the scientific esoterics, they stick by their guns that we don't actually know what gravity is. They still say that. They still say that because I'm an amateur astronomer for getting a little telescope and all that, but they stick. They just do not back off with. No matter how you talk about gravity, you don't know what gravity is. They can measure it and they they can predict and they don't play with it, but they don't know what gravity is. So I'm gonna put some notes in and, johnny, looks like you had a question or a comment if if you want to unmute or put it in the chat, because I think david still got some time with us.

Speaker 2:

Hello David.

Speaker 3:

Hello Johnny, I'm Indian, so listening to a lot of this was quite interesting. The chakra thing I mean to me what happened in India was Westerners spoiled it because they came in with medicine, and medicine you want to sell medicine, you've got to be able to physically show somebody what it is and how it affects the body. But the chakra system, as far as I'm aware, goes back thousands of years bc and it wasn't called chakras, it wasn't yet that word wasn't used. It was nadis, and nadis got translated into nerves. But it's. It's not nerves, it's energy centers and, as you've mentioned, many, many systems around the world use their own energy centers, chi and them. Energy centers is what the chakras relate to, if you like, but someone's sort of summarized them into these points. But the chakras is just a kind of like, in a nutshell, let's just put them here. But it is all just energy body. So my understanding is that the chakra system is something that was brought into the western world to try and explain something that was so goddamn complicated because it was in sanskrit, and in sanskrit one word can mean a thousand words. It's it's very hard to translate and, just like many religions where you have certain words that may mean many, many things. You would need people from a long time ago to sort of extrapolate what that meant and I think that got lost in translation and we made our modern day analysis on it.

Speaker 3:

And because we're selling medicine, we want medicine to work and not for people to actually join the mind and the body together and realize that as a correlation, that we are not physical beings, that we're spiritual beings embarking on a physical experience, not the other way around. And I think now, only now, like in the last few years or so, people are now starting to wake up and say hang on, a minute. We've got all of these different types of alternate, alternative medicines around, which you know we don't need to take paracetamol, we can take this. We don't need to take that we need, we can take this. And we're all going back to energy and what we can get from plants, what we can get from pranic foods. You know the light quotients of everything and I think that's where we have confused ourselves by trying to make money of modern medicine and forgetting the old lineages. Would you agree, david?

Speaker 2:

Well, you raised about 20 important points in that.

Speaker 3:

I know, I know I couldn't make it any shorter.

Speaker 2:

I'm sorry, no, no, it's good.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I agree with all the points that you made, but every one of those points is a big topic of conversation it is I know, but there was, you know, one thing that triggered thought that might be relevant here, and that was that you're you mentioned energy centers and I wanted to actually give an example of Taoist use of chakras, because in the Taoist system we find a really interesting interpretation of that word energy centers. You know, that helps us to kind of synthesize this information a little bit more. It's a different way of understanding the chakras and it's a physiological process of meditation also, and in Taoism the chakras are not articulated as being seven, they are articulated as being three and they are associated with major areas of the body, but they're called dantian, and dantian means energy field. Okay, that's what triggered my thought on this. Energy center in Taoism is energy field, and energy field is the place, transformation, and so there is the lower dantian, middle dantian and upper dantian, and so, basically, taoist alchemy is doing the same thing that the kundalini system is proposing, but instead of working with seven chakras, it's working with three fields of energy. Now, the three fields of energy are associated with three treasures, okay, and the treasures are Jing, qi and Shen, and Jing means essence and it is in the lower field, and Jing is very much water element.

Speaker 2:

Second chakra, earth, element, nutrients, okay, and it is reproductive energy. And so Jing is transformed into Qi. That's the alchemy, that's the microcosm. Okay, moving the energy up the spine. Same concept transform energy from lower to higher. That's a fundamental commonality with all these systems is we're in the body, it is the universe, and we want to go from lower to higher. Okay, that's the agreement, that's the goal. So Jing represents our sexual fluid, sexual vitality, but that is transformed into Qi, which means that we cultivate vitality. Qi is energy, which means that we cultivate vitality. Qi is energy, and so we change reproductive fluids into energy and in that process it passes through fire, which is a third chakra, and then qi is transformed in the heart into shen, which is spirit.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so basically, the alchemical model of kundalini and the chakras is we take the fluids and we turn them into energy, and we take the energy and we turn it into spirit, and then spirit returns to the dao. Okay, so it's the same process, just different terms. But what actually happens in a meditation session? Well, there's all of these things, like you know. We do the breathing and we raise the qi along the spine and then we can swallow the saliva and the water goes down and it nourishes the fluid and it comes back up.

Speaker 2:

But basically, anytime that we enter into a relaxed state, we we are moving energy from jing to chi, and any time we enter into a state of letting go of concerns of the mind, we are transforming spirit into Tao. We are allowing the shen to enter into the flow, dao, we are allowing the Shen to enter into the flow. So all of these things represent processes that everyone can and does experience at a microcosmic level, but they also represent ultimate macrocosmic goals. So that was one thing that I thought of in response to your numerous points that you were elucidating there, and thank you. Okay, something came in on the chat. Should I start looking at the chat stuff here?

Speaker 1:

Oh no, you're good, david. I was just making sure that everyone knew where to find your courses, your information, your links. I will be spreading as far and wide as I can I did. Is you some of your just so much knowledge you shared with us? One thing that resonates with me is of the systems that you have studied and how you were able to integrate so much. This is millennia of knowledge. You distilled it down to us in a way we could understand.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes, what I tell my own patients is that you know, of all these healing systems, tradition of American medicine, allopathic medicine, western medicine is the youngest. It is the youngest of all these systems and it's what I do for a living and I tell folks this all the time that you know, of all of these healing systems, it's the one that's been around the least. It is very loud and assertive in the way that it's approached, but it's very much the youngest. So Tway is asking us if you don't mind sharing with us some of your offerings for students and that would be lovely and then also if you wouldn't mind telling us about your private consultations, because I noticed you offer consultations for clinical level care and then for practitioners. Do you mind sharing that with us, david?

Speaker 2:

I don't mind and thank you for the opportunity. So the website is crowconsultationscom and I have several things there. I offer some regular free events. We do some meditation practices, periodically have meditation gatherings, and those are generally well attended and they're also recorded. So if you go to the events page then you will see some of those free events that are recorded and they are free lectures and they are free meditation practices and gatherings and so on. So that's one page. And then, if you look at the link that you have put in here, charlize Adtis, I have a number of courses that are archived and this is only one place that I teach because, as you know, I also teach other places, places. The shiftnetworkcom is also another place. There's a number of courses archived there and my work can be summed up into two fields, and this is based on how I learned classical Asian medicine, and that is the first field is medicine and the second field is the associated lineages of spiritual practices. So my work is really about reintegrating those two lineages because they were always inseparable.

Speaker 2:

If we look at the practice of herbal medicine in Tibetan medicine, in Taoism, in Chinese medicine, originally they were closely entwined, closely connected to spiritual practices, and the reason for that is because spiritual practices potentize herbal medicine. We can find all kinds of examples of that. We can find that in the making of medicine or the consuming of medicine, it's always been associated, everywhere in the world, with sound of our voice Okay. So prayer, mantra, okay, has always been used as part of making and using medicine. Song okay, it's always been used. The vibration of the voice has always been integrated with herbal medicine. And we also find visualization, prayer, mindfulness, all of these kinds of spiritual practices. They actually potentize herbs and this is one of the things that I have been teaching very specifically and I call it illuminated herbalism. It's basically integrating how to use meditation practice to potentize the effects of the herbs. And anybody can experience this. Anybody can potentize herbs in the body and it's quite remarkable because all we have to do is use our attention and we start to notice more body sensations, and that's simple biofeedback. So if we use awareness of body sensations and we are consuming herbs and we really notice the body sensations that those herbs produce, and if we are really noticing the body sensations that the herbs produce, that means that we're actually amplifying the body sensations. And if we are amplifying the body sensations with our own mind. That means we're amplifying the therapeutic benefits just by paying attention. Okay, so that's one way that spiritual practices have been linked to herbs is using the mind to make them more potent, to make them more effective in the body, and the second is that herbs have always been used to support meditative practices, and we find that is especially true, like, for example, in Ayurveda.

Speaker 2:

There's a complete branch of medicine called rasayana rejuvenation. It's how to use herbs to live a long life, and the whole purpose of living a long life is to achieve enlightenment. Okay, so there's all of these links between using herbs to support the brain, using herbs to keep us strong, but herbs also can help us move very rapidly into meditative states, and that's something that's very important for people to understand is they have. Almost everybody has difficulty now just moving into meditative states and going more deeply, but we can use herbs that very rapidly cause deep relaxation and therefore herbs support meditation. Herbs protect the brain so that we can have a long life with high cognitive functions. Herbs therefore support the spiritual path to liberation and likewise, meditation potentizes the herbs.

Speaker 2:

That sums up what I do in terms of most of my teaching, all of my classes that are there that are archived, are basically medical in nature, like, for example, the current offering which is now running, by the way, and people can join that that will be archived. People can see it. It's a class on protecting and detoxifying from microplastics very contemporary, you know, toxic issue. And so I do clinical work medically and the way that I do my consultations is based on classical psychology, herbal medicine, but most of my patients are on pharmaceuticals. A high percentage of people have very complex metabolic disorders and therefore what my role as an herbalist is is frequently how to help people navigate through integrating natural medicine with pharmaceutical medicine.

Speaker 2:

And for a lot of people they come to me because they want to get off their medications, they want to reduce their medications.

Speaker 2:

They're in this very unpleasant situation where they can't stay on the medication for one reason or another it's damaging the liver or it's not working anymore, but they can't stop it either either because cholesterol is going to go too high. So this is kind of the modern pandemic that we have. The pandemic is closely connected to allopathic medicine and I'm very pragmatic about all of this and this is one of the reasons that people consult with me is that I also help people understand and sort out a lot of confusing information on the internet about natural products, and one of I guess you could say kind of one of my subspecialties is helping people recover from excess detox and helping people recover from TikTok medicine. I'm sure you've seen a lot of this too, and that is that there's just so many ungrounded forms of dangerous advice that are being given, and I've seen cases where people have lost their gallbladders because of gallbladder flushes and things like that. People damage your digestive system through excessive purgation and cleansing and all of this.

Speaker 1:

So I have seen the gallbladder flush, saw it a few times before. Someone told me what I was seeing and just insane. And those patients did have their gallbladders removed. Yes, I've seen several of those gallbladder flushes and finally a patient was brave enough to tell me what they'd done. I think, oh my goodness, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I'm kind of, you know, I'm very much like you are in kind of several worlds at once, you know. I mean you're in allopathic medicine and you're in holistic thinking and you're in spirituality and yoga, so I'm also kind of straddling these different worlds. But when it comes to my consultations, that's a big part of what I do is I help people develop critical thinking about these things and navigate through the internet medicine. So I have the courses. They're archived, they're things like, you know, a course on digestive, improving digestive functions, and courses on herbal medicine and courses on meditation. So it's two things. It's basically these two lineages of traditional classical herbal medicine integrated with spiritual practice. So thank you for the opportunity to talk about that. That's what I do.

Speaker 1:

So, david, it has been an honor and a pleasure to have you on with us. It will be so much to absorb from this episode, but, for the listeners of this podcast, everything that David has shared with us you'll find in your show notes. You'll also find in the emails that I'll send out once the podcast is live. David, is there any parting wisdom or words you'd like to leave with us, with us listeners?

Speaker 2:

Well, not so much parting wisdom except more gratitude. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. I went on and on and on about, you know, some of these historical teachings. Now these teachings are finally coming to us, and the more we study the translations that are coming out, the more amazing it is. So we can find the work of contemporary scholars now who are really translating the root texts, and that wasn't happening in the 1800s.

Speaker 2:

You know, as Johnny pointed out, sanskrit is very, very complicated language, and especially from a thousand years ago. But now what's happening is that many of the root texts are being translated by very high-level scholars, and so what we can say is that the ancient dharma lineages are now actually starting to come to the West from qualified translators and scholars, and therefore we have this vast resource of knowledge and teachings that are now coming, and the more we study it, the more we can understand classical medicine, the more we can understand contemporary chakra system. In other words, we're very fortunate now because we have access to all of these things. Chinese medicine is now fully available, ayurvedic medicine is fully available, tibetan medicine, african medicine, south American Amazonian medicine. We're so fortunate to have all of these lineages coming to us now, but the only last piece of advice would be we have to study it deeply and be very careful about using it.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for joining us. So much gratitude, David. Thank you very much. So thank you so much for folks I'm going to stay, so I actually don't have to be anywhere. David, you have given us over an hour of your time, so if you like to stay or go, whichever works for you, but I like to stay present.

Speaker 1:

In case anyone has any extra questions for listeners of the podcast, check your show notes, check your email from me for all of the details, as well as David's courses and his consultations. Thank you so much, david, and although this will conclude the podcast, I am still here and David stay as long as you like. This has been so much I know the listeners will get it. They'll need to listen to these episodes a few times. That was a lot of wisdom, so much wisdom.

Speaker 2:

All right. Well, I will just stay after the podcast long enough to say thank you again and again, and thank you to everybody who was here and to everybody listening in the future. So it's one of my favorite topics. I'm really glad that we could talk about it.

Speaker 1:

Very important. It's very important and the way you distill this. This not because these are concepts that are so difficult, but you've done this for yourself. Of course, this comes easy for you, but as you were describing this, oh, oh, my goodness, I'm taking notes for myself. Yes, I'm the podcast producer and all that, but I'm actually taking notes because I'm like there's so many layers, there's so many layers to everything you shared with us.

Speaker 2:

It's wow, you know where. Where this really came together for me at a whole new level was when I started delving into these older root texts, the scriptures that are now translated. I mean, I can't translate those, but there are many people who are now translating these things and out of that I was really inspired to do an updated course on the chakras and that came out as the Illuminated Chakras course.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2:

And in that course, this is where a lot of these things became really clear to me, because we can't really have clarity about a complicated subject if we're only looking at it through one lens. So, in other words, to really understand what chakras are, we have to look at a vast number of perspectives. We have to look at the culture, we have to look at the yoga, we have to look at the iconography, the symbology, the deities, the practices themselves, the goals. It is a very complicated subject that it's very difficult to see unless we study it from a lot of different perspectives. And so that is the course that really helped me to put together this big mandala of teachings and have some historical perspective and have some understanding of symbology, and also to be able to look at systems across different lineages. Also.

Speaker 2:

That's very, very helpful to be able to, to understand that, oh, that's taoist alchemy also, it's not just kundalini yoga. That was a big breakthrough for me in understanding that it's there in Taoism and it's in this alchemical process. And all of a sudden, if we understand that it's this alchemical process in Taoism, suddenly we understand that kundalini yoga is alchemy. So anyway, I'm reverting to going on, I will sign off and say thank you so much Gratitude again, and especially for all the good work you're doing. I mean allopathic medicine. Your patients need you and thank you for taking care of them.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much, david. I'm sharing all of your courses. I'll be sharing everything with my community, but again, so much knowledge that you shared with us and as a student, I get it. I knew to prepare. I tried to prepare myself as much as I could, but definitely for the listeners of this podcast, you're leaving them with so many journeys. We'll start with these words that you are used to saying. I know you've said these things thousands of times, but this will launch many people on journeys that I can't imagine. So we are so appreciative, david, thank you. Which which of my courses?

Speaker 2:

have you taken?

Speaker 1:

So I took your course at the shift network. Have you taken? So I took your course at the shift network? I think it was. Was it Ayurveda and aromatherapy? Oh, right, right. So yeah, I was just reflecting on that because I I study those notes pretty frequently and I actually go through. So I haven't actually really even finished it, because about the time I get through a lesson I need to go back through it. So for me it was more for personal, but my role is I end up having someone's going to ask me and so then I reference and they go okay, let me go back and see what an expert says. But yeah, so it was that course. And then, before I found you for the podcast, I was one of your customers at Floricopia. I don't know if we can discuss Floricopia, because I love that, I love your company, yeah, so yeah, is it okay if I share that with the listeners? Well, floricopia is closed now. Is it closed? Okay, Okay.

Speaker 2:

Right, okay, all of our oils moved over to Anima Mundi Herbals and they're still available there, but under their label.

Speaker 1:

Under their label. Got it.

Speaker 2:

Okay, floricopia went on for over 20 years and it was innovative, one of the first green businesses in the natural products community and it took me all over the world working with plant people, agriculture, wild harvesters, distillers, everywhere. It was a wonderful, wonderful company. I loved it also and it was also very complicated and it came time to close it and that's why I created the Crow Consultation site.

Speaker 1:

No, this is wonderful, this is absolutely wonderful. A term I learned recently was green allopathy Nice, have you heard of that?

Speaker 2:

term. I like that term.

Speaker 1:

So it's I can't remember who I heard say this, but it's this practice of I don't know, maybe called a practice, but it's a tendency to approach natural healing with an allopathic stance, so that you start to use plant medicine, sort of as a pill for an eel, using an herb or an aromatherapy for this symptom or for that green allopathy which, in my practice, what ends up happening is I'll meet patients who are taking essentially like 20 herbal supplements and they'll ask me to make sense of it and I have to reference them, which you know. I will be referencing them to you. Thank goodness I've got you as a resource now, because I have to tell them, you know, yes, I have some understanding, but if you're taking that many herbal supplements, I don't have any idea how they're interacting and what's happening in your liver and your kidneys and your energy. And so, yeah, that's that green allopathy is happening in the Western medicine world Patients that are wanting to be empowered, they want to step outside, but it's sort of the allopathic approach of it. So it's yeah, right, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well, that term has positive and negative connotations, mm-hmm, oh yeah connotations. And the positive connotation is that people want natural alternatives. But the negative connotation is that they're using plants in an allopathic way. Now, that's not necessarily bad if the plant works, but a real classic example is like curcumin and traditionally and I'll tell you, David, if they're talking to me, it's not working.

Speaker 1:

That's a terrible way to say it, but if they're with me, that means it's not working, probably yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well, there are some things that can work in a real simplistic, symptomatic way like that, but one of the things that I address in consultations over and over again is why these herbal products aren't working. Okay, because many times people come to me and they say, well, I've done this and this and I still can't sleep. I take the valerian and I still can't sleep. I take the valerian and I still can't sleep. Or I'm taking the googly product and I still can't bring my cholesterol down. Well, that's the weakness of that model, okay, is that herbs don't really work that way. You have to take more time and really look at the individual, and what you find then is some of this is just how the herbal industry developed Like. Valerian was not ever regarded as a sleep herb historically, it was one of the things that it treated, but valerian was very, very different 100 years ago in herbal knowledge. The reason valerian became a sleep herb is because the natural products industry has to put their products on a specific shelf, okay, and so they have to say well, valerian, where does valerian go? Valerian goes on the sleep shelf, okay. So that's a lot of allopathic herbology. It's all based on how the shelves are organized in the health food store, you see, but many times that doesn't work for people. Sometimes it does, but many times it doesn't, and therefore we have to go much deeper. And this is where we get into some of the real contradictions of how herbs work. For example, there are many people who can't sleep because they're exhausted okay, and therefore the relaxing herbs don't work. What they need instead are the rejuvenative herbs, because they're so depleted, all right. And so it's paradoxical, and people wouldn't think well, if I took some American ginseng and I took some Eleuthero, if I took some tonics and adaptogens, I could sleep better. But this is a real common problem, and this is well understood in Chinese and Ayurvedic medicine. And so what we find then is that some of the formulas for sleep are actually based on strengthening the body rather than calming it. So that's where holistic herbology works better than allopathic herbology, and that's why we need more education. That was my final comment is let's learn this stuff, but let's be careful, because everybody wants to feel better, everybody wants a simple solution, but many times we actually have to understand our physiology at a fairly deep level to be able to correct it.

Speaker 2:

You say and that's the shortcoming of allopathic medicine is that, as you know very well, doctors don't have time. They don't have time to even educate their patients about side effects of the drugs. That's a lot of what I do. A A lot of times patients have they've been on a medication. The doctor's never told them what it was going to do, but they never took the time to study it either. And so it all comes down to we have to learn what the drugs are doing and we have to learn how the herbs work. It takes a lot of time, and that's the main problem is nobody's got time. But sometimes allopathic herbology works. Many times it doesn't. And then the question arises well, what else is happening? And that's why sometimes, when people try sleep herbs, they don't work. Well, it's because of their blood sugar. They just need a cup of bone broth before they go to bed. So that's why we have to understand what's causing the problem. You see, everybody's focused on the symptoms. We have to understand what's causing the problem. Good example, good issue in herbology.

Speaker 1:

So, david, again, thank you so much. I do not want to abuse your time. I so much appreciate you being on.

Speaker 2:

Oh, good, good, Okay, I am here. I am here out of pure enjoyment, so thank you.

Speaker 1:

Nice, nice, all right, thank you so much, thank you.

Speaker 2:

I will let you sign off now.

Speaker 1:

Okay, well, I stay here till everyone's gone, because I am the host.

Speaker 2:

So I am the host, so I am here. I will say farewell and hope to see you in a future class. Keep up with your good work and take good care of yourself also, because your patients need you.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. Thank you, david, and I was just going to tell you I'll be enrolling, probably in the illuminated chakras, so because, yeah, the education never ends. So thank you very much, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Take good care.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, nice meeting you, johnny.

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